ProductiviTree: Cultivating Efficiency, Harvesting Joy

How Gen Z is Redefining Productivity at Work with Lisa Friscia - Ep 31

• Santiago Tacoronte • Season 1 • Episode 31

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In this conversation, Lisa Friscia discusses the evolving expectations of Gen Z in the workplace, emphasizing their desire for purpose, flexibility, and equity. She highlights the importance of effective communication and understanding the unique challenges faced by younger generations. Lisa also addresses misconceptions about Gen Z, the need for organizations to adapt their productivity models, and the significance of mental health in the workplace. The discussion covers actionable steps for managers, the future of work, and the role of technology in enhancing productivity.

Takeaways

  • Gen Z values purpose and impact over traditional productivity metrics.
  • Flexibility in the workplace must be defined based on organizational goals.
  • Effective internal communication is crucial for engaging younger generations.
  • Mental health considerations should focus on reducing organizational stressors.
  • Misconceptions about Gen Z include views of entitlement and lack of work ethic.
  • Leaders should be clear about their objectives and the reasons behind them.
  • Reverse mentoring can bridge the gap between generations in the workplace.
  • Onboarding processes need to be rethought to better integrate new employees.
  • Performance reviews should evolve to include continuous feedback and growth opportunities.
  • Organizations must connect individual tasks to broader organizational success.

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Lisa, welcome to Productivity! Hi, thanks for having me. Lisa, with your experience in social impact and talent strategy, you have likely seen a shift in workplace expectations. What are the difference you have observed in how Gen Z and other generations' approaches work and productivity compared to previous generations? Yeah, think, I mean, I think it's, people like to lump, you know, all millennials, all boomers, all Gen Z into these neat categories. But before I do that, I think it's important to set context because I used to be a history teacher, right? I deeply believe that historical context really shapes. ah So taking a pause to think about how Gen Z grew up, right? At a time when most of us had in-person internships or in-person jobs, or you started your job in your first few years after college, all of that was in-person. And so you weren't just doing the work, but you were observing, you were ah seeing people, you're absorbing how people work. Gen Z didn't have all of that. ah so, growing up at a time during COVID where expectations weren't always clear because we were all figuring it out. So I think all of this really shapes Gen Z in addition to the fact that they saw a lot of us, older folks, because we are older folks now, at least I am, doing all of the right things and still getting laid off. Right? So I think all of those things have shaped how Gen Z thinks about productivity in that they want to have purpose and impact. They want to be able to do a good job. I think that's just true of humans in general. But I don't think that they accept the status quo of, need to be in my seat 10 hours a day to do that. I don't need to be in person to do that. ah I can have flexibility in how I get those things done. And sometimes they're right and sometimes they're not. And that's, think, true again of human interactions. But I think they think about productivity in terms of impact rather than hours put in. So you work with organizations to align strategy and talent and equity. So how do you see Gen Z's emphasis on equity and inclusion changing traditional productivity models? Yeah, I think, you know, and the recent American election shows us that Gen Z is not a monolith, right? We have a lot of younger Gen Z white males who actually voted against things that were standing for equity and inclusion. So I think it's important to not um swipe a broad brush. However, I think in the spaces that I work, I definitely see Gen Z calling for and wanting to see how equity inclusion is not just spoken about, but lived as well, right? Not just the performance and the panels and the, let's put a pretty social media post, but they care deeply about whether organizations are diverse, whether they're inclusive, um whether they are providing equitable outcomes for all folks. And so I definitely see that push. And so it is pushing, uh I think, social impact organizations to... think about these things a little bit deeply and also more importantly, communicate it. Because sometimes organizations are doing the work, they're not always communicating it. And so I think that um the, I'm seeing the importance of internal communications being even more important right now. You said that newer generations value flexibility. In your experience, what does flexibility truly mean? You mentioned the office and sitting in the office. What does it truly mean and how can we structure for optimal productivity? So I think that's going to be different for every organization, right? um And so I think this is the challenge when I see people talk and think about Gen Z, because it's not that the organization should automatically move to let's make everything flexible, nor should the organization say, no, this is like what we've done all the time and we need to keep it. The question is, organizations need to go back to what are we trying to do? What are the organizational goals and strategies? And how do individual people's roles play a part of that? From there, you'll be able to identify what are the things that have to be true and where are the places that are flexible, right? So I work with schools a lot. You have to be in front of children. There's no flexibility on that piece. But maybe there's flexibility in regards to how you spend your... professional development time, or maybe there's flexibility in regards to, you know, if you're finishing teaching for a certain amount of time, for the day, do you get a chance to step out? I don't know the answers to this, but that's kind of the flexibility that we're talking about, because different jobs are gonna require different things. And so not every job, especially jobs that require people to be in person, like manufacturing or healthcare, those are in-person roles. So then the question becomes, is there other flexibility we can give them, maybe in terms of the way that they do their work or the way that they prepare. ah So figuring out choices there. I think for some organizations then, you know, with a lot of, like I've worked with some remote first organizations, really thinking about when is C time actually important? Because I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z is that they don't want in-person time. And I think... you know, we're seeing increasingly, they do want some, it just has to have a purpose. Like I don't want to come into the office and stare at a screen and then talk on Zoom with people. I can do that at home. But I do want to be able to come in to meet with my team. I do want to be able to come in to talk to my mentor. I do want to come in to observe something. And so it's really about, it's not just flexibility, it's about flexibility and purpose together. Purpose, purpose you read in my mind, purpose. can new generations are well more prepared than us, Lisa? How can we tap as leaders in companies on purpose to untap all the power that the new generations have and all the good ideas that they can bring to companies? Yeah, I think this is where, and I said this earlier, I'm seeing the importance of internal communication become even more important. And so sometimes that's working with internal comms or a really good HR business partner or an executive coach. There's people who have this skill, marketers, but is requiring us to talk about work in a way that no one really talked to us about work. So we are trying to figure out how to lead in a really different way than you know, our leaders did when we were joining the workforce. So really it's about storytelling and connecting the dots for um staff. And part of that, to be able to connect the dots, you actually have to talk to your team, right? If a business person, if a business leader, an organizational leader is listening to me right now and tried to just steal my talking points, it would go okay. But the point is you have to be talking to your team. What is clear to you? What policies don't make sense to you? um Or where are you not seeing purpose? And let those conversations guide you in identifying where are the spaces you do need to connect the dots. Because sometimes people miss context, right? um Like why are the things happening the way that they are? How does, um and I see this especially in social impact and nonprofit organizations where a lot of people don't understand how the bills get paid, right? uh You know, the money doesn't just come from the sky. We need to have revenue. I know that they know that, but really explaining here's what the things are that we need to do to be successful, consistent, get philanthropic money, whatever the thing is. It's really about telling the story and clarity is not an end state. You don't just do something and you're clear and yay, we're done. It requires consistent communication. and also listening to understand like where are the gaps. um As a former teacher, it makes sense to me, right? Because as you teach, you're also trying to figure out, where is there's misconception and how do I address that? But I think that's the process. I think it's accepting that clarity is a process, that as things shift, you are going to need to communicate again. And you also need to listen about how your team is perceiving what's going on at the same time. Very interesting. Lisa, our generation lifted technological revolution. The newer generation has been born with a smartphone in their hands. Are they more likely to use new tools, new technology to make them more productive? Are they easier to change with technology? It's a good question. I think that there is a comfort level definitely with technology and especially technology that allows for asynchronous work um and communication. I think the challenge, and this is true for all generations, I think on some level is the technology doesn't save us, right? How are we using the technology? How are we discerning when to use it and when not to use it? um What are the patterns? What's the back? What's the expertise that you need? I think about AI, right? ah know, leveraging chat GPT, you have to have some level of content knowledge to be able to interact with it so that you know what is actually correct or how to modify it for your organization. So I think that there's a comfort definitely in technology. I think just like any generation and any group of 20 year olds that we've ever talked about, right? Whether millennials or, you know, what have you. It's about having them to understand how to use it, when to use it, when not to use it. uh That nuance, I think, is something that just comes with experience, right? Like the pattern recognition, that understanding of how to use the tools, I think is, and I don't think that's unique to Gen Z, I think that's just more being early career. Listen, some argue that Gen Z focus on mental health and well-being and that that is at odds with the high pressure work environment because let's face it, some work, every work has pressure and stress at some point. How should companies go about this? Yeah, it's a really good question. think, you know, I think that there is a level, you sometimes there's stress in an organization. Sometimes there's discomfort as you work through conflict with people. think, you know, conflict can be healthy. ah It's not always healthy, but it can be healthy. So part of it is articulating that, right? Saying, you know, identifying and explaining what is healthy conflict and what is allowed and. and creating space for people to have those conversations. But in regards to mental health, I think of mental health as more expansive ah than just, I think how some people think. I think about organizations that are set up in a clear way. Like who do you go to for what? Like where are the standard operating procedures? ah Are you clear on what you're trying to work towards or do you feel like your boss keeps changing the metrics of success? All of those things are um things that don't actually help us to do better work and also create a level of anxiety. So I think that there's organizational stresses that we have to be aware of and that we do have to make the effort to remove and have those conversations with teammates to say what is causing unnecessary stress? Because if you're, especially if you're going into social impact work, whether that's behavioral health or working with schools or working with you know, um unhoused, whoever, I think there's a realization on some level that that work is gonna be hard. It's all the other work that doesn't have to be as hard, right? Getting the reimbursement, know, what have you. I think it's also important, right? Like, do we really need to be sending emails at 2 a.m.? Like, you know, early on in my career as a leader, I learned to schedule your emails because people, even if you say, you don't have to answer my email, um Until you get to work, people, right, it's your boss. Like there's always a stress level when you see that inbox. And so I've learned just schedule your emails. So I think about mental health and thinking about how do we reduce the organizational stresses so that the discomfort that people are feeling um or the stressors are about the actual work itself, not the politics and not the, m don't know how to get this thing approved. uh kind of situation, if that makes sense. It does, and it's a great point. In fact, many organizations offers 80 % of figure out how this works and 20 % of think how to do your work. So it's a very relevant point. Lisa, based on your experience, what are some misconceptions about Gen Z and how can we, you know, be more aware and unbiased about them? Yeah, I think that there is a misconception that they are entitled, that they don't want to work hard, that they want, you know, quick successes. And I don't think that's really the case. I think that there's some, you know, communication that needs to take place. I think that they push for, and one thing I appreciate about Gen Z is that there's no guest, with the Gen Z staff that I've worked with, there's no guessing what's in their head, ah which I appreciate. I would rather you just come to me and talk and we can have a conversation and you can give me the opportunity to clarify versus I think some generations where they keep it all inside and I'm not a mind reader as a leader. And so I actually appreciate Gen Z's directness because we can address it and we can have that conversation. ah So I really appreciate that level of directness, but I think that there are some leaders who just aren't used to that. um And I feel like if you've thought through what you want people to do, you should be able to explain it and defend it. What are actionable steps managers can take to better accommodate Gens Headquarters? Because they are there. I think I four in my team. So what steps should we take to boost product, true productivity, not output, not ours, and to better accommodate them? Is listening, is asking, how can we make them be part of a team? Yeah, well, I think, mean, in any inclusive organization, the first thing you need to do as a leader is be very clear on what you are trying to accomplish and why does it matter, right? That's the first step. Like before we can be clear, I led a leadership training series and someone mentioned, oh, I'm not clear with my staff because I'm not clear with myself. And so, I find leaders needing that space to really think through their own bottom lines and their explanation. Because on some level we need to be teachers. So I think that's the first step. And then I think from there, being clear on that, you know, there are certain things, especially when your role requires you to be in person, maybe your organization has heavy compliance, right? Like there's no creativity there, but we have to explain the why behind it. Like, hey, this is just a federal law. This is just a state law. We cannot change this. But here are some places that we might be able to play. Or maybe it's a, what kind of training would you need to be able to do that? I think leaders have to be clear on what are the non-negotiables and what are things that they can, there is some level of flexibility um or what could be up for discussion. And I think doing that internal work first is the best way. to then engage with anybody, whether that's someone who is Gen Z or from a first generation family or someone who's coming from another country or someone who's coming from a different state, because in the US, different parts of the country sometimes that's very different. um And I think that's just great at inclusive strategies because part of inclusion is just being clear about what success looks like. So I think that's the biggest piece. ah And then from there being able to have a conversation. I think the next thing is also making sure even when there's really little wiggle room on what you're doing and how you're doing it, trying to figure out where can you engage your staff on the how? And it could be, hey, this is the thing that needs to happen, but what support do you need? Like walk me through what would need to be true for you to be successful. doing X, and Z. I think you've got to give people a space to be, and I think this is true for, I mean, this is just adult learning, is you have to give people a space to problem solve and to figure out where you set that as a leader depends on your organization, your industry, but we have to give people some type of space to figure things out for them to stay engaged. You frequently talk about the future of work. How does it look like? And how can we stay competitive and at the same time work with new generations and attract new talent? Yeah, I do think it comes down to clarity at the end of the day. I don't think it needs to look the same in every industry um or in every organization, but there does need to be purpose and there does need to be clarity. I think that the biggest piece of the future of work that I see is the importance of that and being able to explain that. um So I think that's the piece. also think that from what I'm seeing, and just given the amount of time we're talking about Gen Z, is I do think organizations need to rethink onboarding and how they are onboarding staff. Whether that is about here's how we operate as a team, which I think is important, but also with technology changing as fast as it is, AI, what have you. I think we need to really think of onboarding as less of here's the two days you do your paperwork. And really onboarding should be a welcome party slash initiation to really help people to acclimate to their workspaces. I think that's one of the biggest opportunities that we have um is really in that first three to six months with folks in terms of their onboarding. So those are some of the things that I'm seeing um there. think we still need to rethink performance management. um I think we need to get better at giving stronger feedback. But and I think we need to get creative on Just because something has been done the same way before doesn't mean we necessarily need to do it now It may need to stay the same I'm not you know I don't tell leaders what they need to do at the end of the day like the CEO the chiefs the you know your VP you need to figure out your outcomes But I think there I think that this is a time to really question the status quo and how things have been done in the past Let's talk a little bit about performance review and things like the, um, of Rysos and the yearly performance review, which I think you said it, they haven't changed in what, 40 years? How should we evolve this, this part that we are doing almost mechanically just because you said it right now, we are, we do, we do them every year. So let's continue. It's almost like a tradition is becoming, right? no, and I think it's important to have a once a year step back where you look at the year as a total with people. But the actual conversation should be like, of course, we've talked about this before. We want to give continuous feedback. As soon as you see something, you say something. ah And there should be ongoing coaching, whether that's from you, whether you direct it to somebody else. Because not like. I'm a great coach on some things, I'm not a great coach on other things. um And as leaders, we have to be honest with ourselves when we say, you know what, I'm not the best at that, let me connect you with something else, or here's a course you can take, or what have you. So I think that there needs to be more of an ongoing feedback conversation so that the annual review is more of a, let's put a period at the sentence, and now let's look ahead to the year as we look forward to say, what are you gonna be working on next? I think that we need to, and so because I think what we're seeing from younger generations, Gen Z and millennials specifically, is that they really do want to, they want growth. Growth doesn't necessarily just mean being promoted, though for some people that is, um but they want to get better at their jobs and they want to feel like they are moving forward. so organizations, and I would say probably that's the other piece in the future of work that we need to be paying attention to is, How are we developing people um in a way that makes sense to them? Because everyone's motives and incentives are different. um I think that's going to be really, I think that career pathway, that career conversation is really important. um So that the annual review is more of a, of course, let's just take a step back. Let's talk a little bit about leadership and um the clashes that there are between senior leadership, which normally are at the age of almost retirement or close to it, closer to it, so to speak, and younger generation. Is it because of the distance, the difference in age that they're so... They have different ways of thinking. It's like when you talk to your grandma and said, wow, wow, we have nothing to do, you know, it's so different. Why do we have this friction? Yeah, you know, so I work in social impact, which there's a lot of millennial and Gen X bosses and, you know, Gen Z, some of them are becoming 30. So increasingly we're starting to see Gen Z bosses as well. I think that there is, there naturally becomes a distance between leaders and staff because your perspective is different. And I think both perspectives are important. Let me be really clear and they need to talk to each other. uh As you get promoted, you get less connected to what's happening on the ground. You're looking at the market, you're looking at the space, you're looking at national trends, right? So you're looking far out and that's important. And also it's important to remember what are the day-to-day things that are taking place that are either helping people to do their job or to stress out. So just from a school example, because I used to be a principal before moving into the talent space, I remember as a principal, you're thinking, okay, teachers need to be in their rooms on time and the day, like get this stuff done. And then I had to teach for a few months because we had a teacher leave. And I was like, oh, I forgot how hard it is to fight with the Xerox machine. And I know that sounds so silly, but the Xerox machine was the thing that was gonna drive me over the edge, not the teaching and the principalship. Right, not doing two jobs. The Xerox machine was gonna drive me crazy. And so we forget some of those things. And so, and that's why I think it's so important to have that bi-directional communication and feedback. Because sometimes the things that are happening on the ground are gonna totally derail your strategy. If you don't know what you're actually, if you don't actually know the risks that are taking place on the ground. Vice versa. I think leaders need to set the context of what's happening and why they're making the decisions that they're making. And I think that's a newer thing that we're seeing generationally. um But I think leaders, especially if you, and I don't see leaders necessarily resisting that. I think they just never seen it, right? That was not the way that we grew up in the workspace. And so if you've not seen it, it's hard. You don't necessarily think about doing it until someone works with you to figure out, okay, this is a thing that we need to be doing. I mean, some folks are resistant and there's the, back in my day, we didn't do X, Y, and Z. It's like, okay, let's calm down. Like back in your day, also didn't have an international pandemic too. So ah things change. ah But more I see it as it's just not in people's radar. Cause especially right now in social impact. senior leaders are drinking from a fire hose. There's, and in America specifically, there are so many, you know, regulation changes, the funding landscape has shifted. There's so much that's happening. And sometimes when you're trying to, you know, make sure the ship doesn't sink and trying to steer, sometimes what people forget to do is how are we cascading that communication? So I see it more of just a lack of awareness that it's important rather than a um I don't think it's important, um but I think that there does need to be better bidirectional communication between the two, because I think both pieces are important. Do you recommend reverse mentoring and senior leaders to get to have casual conversations with very young interns or very young people? totally, 100%. I think it gives you a clue into how people are feeling so that you can speak to that. It also gives you feedback on weight. That doesn't make sense, right? Because we all have ideas and then we see them in practice and we're like, no, no, that's not what I wanted to happen. So I think those things are important. I also think, especially as a senior leader, you get more disconnected from technological shifts and changes or... Maybe not technological shifts and changes, but I think that there's a lot of innovation that happens on the ground that we don't necessarily hear about. also sometimes, you know, I think about em in one of my fractional clients, I helped to facilitate the purchase of a people management tool. I was looking at it from a very high level, but it's the HR manager who knows how that thing works actually. And so being able to communicate with that person and have her teach me about the technology's limitations, because I'm not going to start fixing things, but having her teach me about it helps me to make better decisions. So I think the reverse mentoring, the mentoring and reverse mentoring is incredibly important for everyone to stay at the top of their game. Lisa, I have a question specific to large companies and corporations and purpose. It's hard to find purpose in large companies because your purpose is to make your shares grow. I'm talking about the shareholder economy. Your company might be manufacturing iron or steel, but still your goal is to make eventually someone richer. How do you find purpose on these kinds of organizations? Well, so I have less experience working there, but I would say the advice that I would give, right, is you can't make something up that isn't true, but I think people want to know how the work that they're doing is helping the organization to be more successful, however you define success, right? So like, why do I need to do the spreadsheet this way? How is that helping somebody else to do their job better? How is it helping my team? So I think you can frame it in those ways to say, the work that you're doing here helps this team to do their job better or helps your fellow teammates in some way or the organization. I mean, if you're working for a for-profit organization, you know what they're doing. Like, know, right? And purpose means something different to you. But I think it's more about the, like, why am I doing this task and how does it impact the organization even if it doesn't impact a social good per se. So looking at it with a shorter, perhaps a little bit of a shorter more uh next to you approach rather than I'm changing the world or I'm changing uh this company as a whole. yeah, no, definitely. I think, yeah, um like a more immediate piece. So, I mean, this is from a social impact space, but working, I was working with the chief impact officer who was talking to the person who was writing grants and they didn't see the problem with having some like minor mistakes and having them explain like, take, let's take a step back, right? When there is like these small errors in how we write, then as the organization as a whole doesn't seem as credible, right? It doesn't seem like we have our stuff together and you are responsible for that. And so this is how we do this. So it's more about explaining the purpose of the work necessary more than if you have an organizational value. And I think that's the opportunity that corporate has as well is that you do have organizational values. And so you should be able to speak to that. Ultimately, again, people who work for corporations know the goal is to make money. ah But organizations do take time to write their values and their mission statements. And so I think you've got to connect. Those are the tools that you're using to connect the dots. Let's do some rapid fire questions, answering 30 seconds or less. Number one, give me one word to describe Jen Zitt's approach to productivity. uh, intentionality. Top 3 productivity tools or apps or tricks that Gen Z loves. um I've seen a lot of usage of Slack, increasingly Notion, which I'm trying to figure out. I'll say someone taught me Loom. Loom for videotaping. uh Yeah, especially for standard operating procedures and walking people through things. Yeah, I've liked Loom as well. Biggest mistake companies make when trying to manage Gen Z. em Either they try to cater 100 % to them or they are super rigid. It's like Goldilocks, you have to get it just right. One piece of advice you give to Gen Z entering the workforce. I would say remain curious about why things are happening the way they are before offering feedback or suggestions or making a decision. Like ask the why, especially knowing that we as older leaders sometimes are not always good at that and need some help. One thing Gen Z does better than previous generations at work. uh question things. Lisa, what's your prediction? Predictions are a tricky thing. always say that prediction fails on a 98 % ratio. But give me your prediction of how will work look like in five years? How does a day in office look like in 2030? I think it really depends on industry. think the signs that we're seeing in industries like finance, I think they're going to be in person and that's going to be consistent. And I think then there's going to be remote first organizations too. ah I think that there's going to be a bigger divide though between industries and also between larger and smaller organizations. I think smaller organizations are going to be able to be... they have the potential to be more nimble and meet the moment, um I think. Lisa, what is the message you want the audience to get today about Gen Z, the future of work and productivity? If you will get them to listen to just one thing, what would it be? work on your communication skills, is, ah there is so much, there are so many differences in our experiences that we have to connect the dots in a way that we haven't had to before. And that's ultimately what an inclusive organization is, is being able to connect the dots to someone who has a different world experience than you. And so... uh That is my biggest advice for anybody at any level of an organization is really work on your listening and communication skills. I think the organizations that do that well are gonna be able to navigate all of the challenges ahead. How can the audience learn more about your work? How can people hire you? How can we know more about everything that you are excellent at? ah So you can follow me on LinkedIn. I have two newsletters. One is um on LinkedIn and that is about 1 % solutions. So as leaders sometimes we get all this big advice. This is a newsletter say, here is one thing that you can do on Monday um to get started. And then I have a newsletter, ah another newsletter that is all things talent and it is focused on leadership and building strong people cultures and includes resources. ah Yeah, definitely my newsletters and LinkedIn are the best way to connect with me. Thank you so much, Lisa. This has been a very insightful conversation about newer generations. We plan to bring a gen set in one of our future episodes to hear the other side, not the other side, to hear a different version of it. It's not the other side. It's a different way of looking at this. If I would take something away today, I think it is the need to communicate better. Mm-hmm. is I think is something that I could reflect during our conversation. Many things I take things for granted. And I assume that someone that just started has to know about it. How come he doesn't know, she doesn't know? And invest the time in explaining the things with care, with love, and explain why you take a decision and also ask, do you see it? in a different light, do you it in a different way? So that was a tremendous message you landed today on me. Thank you. Yes, I think it's the biggest theme that I see in my work. Thank you so much, Lisa. Thank you.