ProductiviTree: Cultivating Efficiency, Harvesting Joy

Why Your Retirement Plan is Broken: The KILLIN IT Method with Lisa Haynes

• Santiago Tacoronte • Season 2 • Episode 47

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Lisa Haynes exposes why 14.8 million Boomers are heading toward retirement disaster and reveals her controversial KILLIN IT formula that prioritizes purpose over portfolios. She challenges everything you think you know about life after work.

In this conversation, Lisa Haynes discusses the flaws in traditional retirement planning, emphasizing the importance of identity and purpose in retirement. She highlights the need for a comprehensive plan that goes beyond financial aspects, addressing the emotional and social challenges retirees face. Lisa introduces her 'Killing It' framework, which encourages retirees to keep moving, imagine their next steps, and nurture their networks. The discussion also touches on the societal implications of an aging population and on corporations' responsibilities in preparing employees for retirement.

Takeaways

  • Retirement planning should include both financial and non-financial aspects.
  • Identity issues are common among retirees, especially those with high-profile careers.
  • Many retirees experience boredom and loneliness without a plan.
  • The concept of retirement is evolving; it's more about shifting gears than stopping work.
  • Social Security may change, but it will not disappear entirely.
  • Retirement should be seen as a second act, not an end.
  • Creating a legacy is important for retirees to feel fulfilled.
  • The hustle culture can hinder the ability to enjoy leisure and rest.
  • Companies should provide training for employees on retirement planning.
  • Planning for retirement should start at least five years in advance.

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Lisa Haynes is a certified executive and retirement coach and the author of Retired and Killing It. After decades as a CFO, she now helps retirees and soon-to-be retirees design a life they're excited to live, focusing on the non-financial side of retirement. Lisa share her Killing It formula, a simple framework to help listeners strive in retirement with purpose, connection and joy, so they can make this next chapter the best one yet. Lisa Haynes, welcome to Productivi-tree. Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. Lisa, what made you realize that traditional retirement planning, it was or it is fundamentally flawed? Yes, so it's a personal story. I um was working as a chief financial officer, chief diversity and inclusion officer for a corporation and decided, you know, after some conversations with the people, I think I've accomplished what I came to do. But I wanted to do more. I wanted to do something. I just didn't want to get up and do a nine to five or actually it's more like a seven to six, but whatever. um I didn't want to do that anymore, but I knew that I wanted to do more. And so I stepped into retirement and realized while I had some ideas about what I wanted to do, I did not have a plan. I did not know exactly what I wanted to do. uh And there was 20 to 30 years ahead of me of not having an idea of what I wanted to do. And so I stumbled across through a colleague something called retirement coaching. And I've always done the financial planning, helping people see the numbers. And we do a great job of preparing people for understanding it takes a lot of money to retire, although we tell them it takes more than it probably does, uh figuring that out. But then it came to, well, what happens with the identity when you step out of your job? What are you going to do with all that time? I like to call it realizing that you have now six Saturdays and a Sunday, because Sunday is like fairly routine. We keep our Sunday and then Saturday is Saturday, but then Monday through Friday also becomes Saturday. because you have all this time on your hand. so stepping out into retirement, you know, doing the certification, but also realizing for myself that while I had some thoughts about what to do, I'm like, yeah, I think I want to do some consulting, maybe I'll, you know, I think I want to get some, some board service, a nonprofit, a paid board. I'm like, I know I want to spend some time with my grandkids, with family. I realized pretty quickly that that's not 20 to 30 years worth of a plan. It was, I could probably do some of that and get bored. can't travel all the time, which is what we all think about. I'm going to retire and travel. You just can't retire and travel for the next 20 years. And that's when I realized that there were lots of other people like me sitting in a position that said, I want to step out into retirement, but I want to do some more things. still have a lot of juice left in me. you know, particularly people who decide to retire before the average retirement age of, call it 65, 67 now. Lots of people are stepping out earlier than that because they want to do some different things. And so that's when I realized that people needed an opportunity in a way to plan ahead of, okay, I am going to retire here because it's what I really want to do. But here are the four things that I'm going to put in my portfolio that are going to keep me busy at least for the next, you know, 10 years. And then I'll think about what I'm gonna do next. that's when I, it was myself stepping out and realizing I didn't have a plan that helped me to see that I wasn't the only one. Lisa, there was a moment where you realized that financial success, and I'm talking about people that have the means to retire comfortably, doesn't necessarily guarantee retirement happiness. That is the absolute truth because even though you have the money and means to do things, there are some elements that I picked out in my book, there are some elements that need to stay active in order for you to find success. So in particular, that person who has the means or who's had this high profile job, one of the first things they're gonna run into is an identity issue. So for the last X number of years, you have been whatever your title is, call it whatever it is. And now, you you go to any event, the first question is what's your name? The second question is what do you do? And so when you can't say, it's funny because I've listened to people who are there and they say, I'm a retired XYZ. That's kind of really not a title. You're not that anymore. And so just finding, what is my identity? And so unless you're around a bunch of retired people, sometimes just telling people that you really don't work anymore doesn't sound very promising. It doesn't sound great. some people it does, but I think that identity thing becomes first, right? You step into it and you go, who am I now? What do I want to do with myself? And so that really, it's the purpose. What's my purpose going to be? What am I going to spend my days doing? Even if you like to golf, you just can't golf every day, all day for the next 20 years of retirement. You have to have some thoughts and plans about what's next and just really helping people to think that through. Like what am I going to do? And whether it's Men or women, think men will probably have even more of the identity issue than women because men are even more, their psyche is even more tied to their job than for women who've had other roles like being a mother, raising family, know, all of the carpooling and all that things that often fall on women, although men are stepping up, I gotta say. But just reality is that just not knowing what you're going to. And one of the things I like to talk about, it's not... just from where you're coming, but to what. So when you retire, what are you retiring to? And I think knowing that and finding your purpose and finding the things that will really help you to enjoy retirement, that's what it is. It's not just the money won't do it because as you the old saying is money can't buy happiness, although it can buy contentment. m Your book is called Retired and Killing It. I love the title. Are you saying that most retirees are doing it wrong? Do you dare to give... I'm a data guy, Lisa. Do you dare to give a percentage of retirees that enter retirement without plan and then they, I wouldn't say collapse, but they face a harsh reality? So I wouldn't dare to say they're doing it wrong. I would dare to say they could do it better, right? They could take they could bring more out of their retirement So that's how I would argue it that I think the majority of people retire they retire well and they're happy and they're particularly happy for what I call what we call the honeymoon phase of retirement So the first year or so they're thrilled I mean, this is great, but boredom is there's a high percentage of boredom depression loneliness in retirement and so that's one of the things I think that that having a plan does is it keeps you focused. know, it's funny, I was watching last night the Golden Girls, the show, The Golden Girls, and the oldest one, the one who plays the mother, she said, you know, when you get to a certain age, you need a reason to get up in the morning. And I think that's what's really important for retirees. What's your reason to get up in the morning other than that you just woke up, right? So we're not motivated to get up in the morning if the plan for the day is to watch Netflix. That's not, there's no motivation to get up and do that. But if the plan for the day is I'm gonna go volunteer at the YMCA or I'm gonna go volunteer at my local food pantry, that's motivation to get up because you're helping someone. And so I would say, I think retirees can do it better. They can make that next act much more vibrant than it is right now. Instead of just kind of walking through life every day, really set up some, parameters and some goals and a plan that makes it exciting to be retired. We have the concept or the conception that at 65 we retire. 62, 65, 66. Is this mindset broken? Should we think about other ages or a second activity? I wouldn't call it work activity life after your 60 plus. Yeah, I like to think that you said it right. I like to think of it as a second act. are you retiring? Yeah, that's still the word people. It's always probably going to be the word. But I think a better word is that you're shifting gears, right? You're shifting to another part of your life. And so this next part of your life is going to be comprised of different things. Instead of getting up for work every day. and working based on what somebody tells you to do, you now have a blank canvas to write what it is that you're going to do with the next 10, 20 years of your life. And so I think that's where it comes in, that it's not about picking the date I'm going to retire and basically just step off the scene. This idea that retirees are off the scene, I think that uh that's a little bit more our grandparents kind of retirement, where you just kind of sit by the side and maybe go to the senior center or you do some of those things. I think we're in a in a new generation, and particularly Gen X and below, I think are gonna be more like, what am I gonna do next in my, whether it's do I wanna write a book, do I wanna start a podcast, whatever it is, there's a next for me, and people are retiring later and living longer. But I think there are lots of people who are reevaluating right now to say, is there something else I could be doing? um The next generation has what's called these mini retirements, where instead of just, trying to keep working until you're 65, they have this new concept called mini-retire where they're taking breaks in their career and doing things for a year or two and then going back to work. Different concept and so I think we have to be flexible with the fact that retirement as we've known it, um where you're retiring and you just go do the things retired people do, and retirement becomes more normal of I have a portfolio of things that I work on. Part of that might be retirement. For me, I try to spend at least 40 % of my time doing retired things, which means doing nothing or doing the things I want. And right now I'm spending about 60 % of my time doing things like retirement coaching. I do some financial consulting. The difference is, though, I do it on my time and on my schedule. So I tell people all the time, if they ask me if I'm available, I say, that depends. It can't feel like a job to me. And so the one thing... there has to be enough flexibility for me to, if I decide I want to go on a vacation, that there's no problem. I can go on a vacation. I'm not tied to anyone's schedule. so I think it just looks different in that people are going to take on things to do to keep their mind fresh, to keep their body fresh, to keep their social connections fresh. um And so I would say, yes, it's going to look different and people should plan on it looking different uh as they move into the future. High achievers and executives often struggle more with retirement. Is success actually a disadvantage? Thinking about your case, you went from being a CFO to being a consultant, and there's nothing wrong with being a consultant, but it's like you're on a high performing managing teams environment, and then suddenly you're on your own. So it can be actually seeing as a bit of a... uh lower level in the ladder of business or executive work. What was your, um and if you had a struggle when you stepped down from CFO to become a consultant? So it's funny because when I um told my boss I was retiring, um actually, I totally talked about it in January, February timeframe, and I actually stayed until September 30, which was the end of the company's fiscal year. um And so I was actually a part of recruiting my replacement. And the strangest thing in the world was getting, working on the job description and then helping to post and recruit for the job, for your own job. that is a very strange thing when you're at a high level that you are actually bringing in your helping to bring in your successor because you realize that is not going to be your title anymore. And so for high performing executives for high roles, particularly C-suite, it can be a little challenging that you are no longer whatever that title is, right? I think for me, because I knew that I was going to I was excited about what I was going to walk into, I had less of a struggle. I knew that there were some things I wanted to do and I don't think that I did it right stepping out. I was telling someone yesterday, I wish I had given myself more permission to do nothing longer and I didn't. I came out, I spent maybe three to four weeks just kind of doing things retired people do like nothing. Going to the gym, whatever. And then I said, there's all these things I want to do and I better get started now. And so I start working on all these things and in my first year, I'm just reaching my first year for retirement. And in the first year, you know, I have taken two certifications, I've taken two entrepreneurial courses, I've written a book. That is not how to start out retirement. It's not pacing yourself. And so if I had to do it over again, I would say have a plan that says how much time will you spend? Give yourself permission to spend doing nothing. That is really hard for high performing and high level executives because you are so used to being busy. one to two hundred emails, know, you're always in a meeting, you're always doing something, and then you land in this space where you have all the time in the world, immediately you're figuring out what do need to do to be busy again. And so that is a challenge. em I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage, obviously, because you had a great job and you a great career. So no disadvantage there. But when it comes to retirement, I think that makes it even more important to have a plan when you've been in a high role because You need to figure out what to do with all that energy, right? So you're coming out of performing and even if you're tired, right? So when I left being a CFO, I felt like a little bit burned out. I'm kind of tired. I just, I need a break. um And so you need the plan. The difference for me is I don't see the reason I call it retired and killing it is because I want people to know I'm not in the hustle. I'm not in corporate America. I'm not even considering myself a full-time entrepreneur. I am retired and I'm doing some things on the side and so as a result I don't measure it keeps me from measuring myself against the entrepreneur who's trying to make millions of dollars. That's not what I'm trying to do. I try to stay focused on what my mission is which is to help retirees and pre-retirees plan beyond their financial uh but beyond their financial planning and move into foreseeing and taking a retirement plan. beyond that, right? So they can see what it looks like for themselves, that they're able to live with purpose, that they're able to really leave a legacy for people and that they're able to enjoy life, right? So one of the things about retirement is it's gotta be joyful. How do we figure out how to ensure people are having joy in their life? We don't play well anymore as adults. We played great as kids, but as adults, we've managed to let play slip out of our, slip through our hands and we need to recreate adult play. uh So my job really is to really help people. call myself the reinvention wing woman. I'm going to help you recreate a life in your next act that's better than your first act. Wow. You've said that 15, almost 15 million boomers will retire in the US in the next five years. And you've also said that many of them doesn't have a plan, financial nor personal. Are we heading into a crisis? So I think that um a little bit of a crisis in the US on the financial side, we do have still a lot of people who are retiring with Social Security being their primary um financial. And as you may be aware, there's a lot of discussion about Social Security. Fears about it going away. I'm not one of those people who's in the camp of Social Security is going to go away because I just feel like... they'll make some changes. There are too many people living off it, but it will, I do think it will change in the future how long it takes you to get it, that kind of thing. But I think from a uh social perspective, if we don't really begin to teach people, because there so many boomers retiring, if we don't begin to teach people how to make this next step really exciting for you, I think we'll see increases in instances of depression. m And I've read some statistics that drug use, um among 65 and older increases, which is fascinating to me because you think at 65 you may be smart enough to realize that's not the way to go. But apparently prescription drugs, prescription drug habits become more common in older people because they're just looking for something to kind of soothe and satisfy. And so I do think that if we're not careful, if we're not educating people, both in the US and other countries, if we're not educating people, if we're not providing resources, for people to say, do I live this second half of my life with excitement? That we could be, you know, we could find ourselves in not a good spot as it relates to an older generation. Let's deep dive on this and the point of social security and the controversy around it. A lot of voices are saying, well, know, life expectancy has increased by 20 years, retiring at 65. And we have things, we have countries in Europe, race in the retirement age. Retiring with 60 is not responsible. You're not contributing to your government, to your country. You're taking resources out of the society when you still can. contribute financially mostly in this aspect. Where do you stand, Lisa? Yeah, so I agree that's happening here as well that there are this so the average aid that Social Security now is 67 for retirement, full retirement, and I expect that that's going to increase as a way to stretch it out. You know, even in study realizing that you have to go back to the history of Social Security, it was not created for people to live off of for 20, 30 years. That's not how they initially created Social Security. It was meant to be kind of an addition to help people, but never thought that people but then people started living longer. So I think that there's a fine line. There are lots of people who are retiring early, but they're still gonna contribute to the social security system through other means. So even though I'm retired, any income I'm earning as I do side hustles, I'm gonna pay social security as an employee and an employer. But I do think that there's a space for... making sure that we're contributing at the right level, right? And a lot of that analysis is being done now. you know, whatever the rate in any country, is that the right rate to be contributing? Or, you know, we've been contributing at the same rate for years. Well, inflation is inflation. And so should that rate be increasing as inflation increases? Should the rate that employees and employers are contributing to Social Security be increasing to help that coverage? um But as a part of me that says, I think it's OK that they increase the social security as we live longer. It makes sense since social security wasn't designed that way, that as you live longer, you've got to contribute a little bit longer to social security. Most people hit their 40 quarters here in the US while they're working. But the more you work, obviously, the higher your salary, the more you're contributing to social security until you reach that cap. And so the other side of that the social side is the cap itself, right? So the higher waged earners in society, they're only capped contributing up to a certain point. And so, you know, there's the debate and where do I stand on that or no, that that one right there I can go. I have arguments for both sides because having been someone who reached the cap, thought this is spent every year when I reached the cap at that point, I was excited about the paycheck being a little bit bigger because I don't have to pay Social Security. But at the same time, from the other social perspective, I do understand the concept of to whom much is given, much is required. And so there's a social concept that says that I kind of agree with that as we have more means. that we should be contributing to systems, uh you know, just kind of, and that may be for some people a little bit too socialist and, know, kumbaya-ish or whatever, but I do think that there is a, that the concept of to whom much is given, much is required, particularly when you're talking about people who've already worked uh their period of time under whatever the system is, I'm one of those people who just kind of feels like. As long as you're working, the system is the system and you just, you have to just live with whatever the government is pushing forward to you and say, you know, this is what we have to contribute. I don't have to necessarily like it, but it is what I'm required to contribute. Killing it is not only a part of your book title, it's also a framework. Can you break it down for us, Lisa? absolutely. So the first letter is the K, which is keep moving. And that's keep moving both physically, mentally, and socially. When we retire, ah it is so easy to get stagnant and we'll move, we'll automatically move less. if we don't do something about it, right? So physically, you don't have to get up for work. You you can lay in the bed, you can become a couch potato. And so one of the things I challenge people to is finding a physical exercise. Mentally, don't allow yourself to become stagnant. Stepping out of the work world automatically means that you lose some of the mental challenge of working. And so it's really important to figure out how you're going to keep yourself mentally challenged. And then socially, statistics say that that the average person when they're working has about 22 touch points a day. And when you retire, that drops in half to about 11 touch points a day. So if you think about if you have less or more, your social circles automatically change. And so you have to figure out how you're going to keep those moving. The I is imagine what's next. And so this is where you create big goals. What do you stay curious? What are you going to do for 20 years? What does it look like for you? Talking a little bit about the why and why did you retire and what's ahead of you? And I like people to think about it in three buckets, is start with your possibilities list, which is all the things you've ever thought you might want to do. And then you're going to move to what I would call the bucket list, right? So you might take some things off that possibilities list. And there's probably things on the possibilities list that you're never going to do, but you just thought about them one day. Like, you you might've said, I'd love to hike, to take a hike. you know the top of the mountain and you realize I'm never going to do that and really not that interested but I thought it was interesting. And then I tell people to create your bucket list. What are those things that you've always wanted to do? For me two of the things I always wanted to do was a list of countries right so I always wanted to go to Spain. I had an opportunity to go to Spain. I had never been to Barcelona before and Greece was another one that was on my bucket list. I've never been to Greece. I'm going to Greece next month so what's what are your What's on your bucket list and then the dare item? I always tell people what's the thing that you dare yourself to do? It's maybe a big hairy audacious goal that like scares you but you like I can do that and that may be starting a podcast maybe writing your book it may be Whatever it is for you for someone. said I'd love to open a gym There is a big goal that you could go for The first L is laugh a lot and I talked about it a little bit earlier that as adults we kind of lose that joy of being children, children who, you know, I remember as a kid we played outside all day, I think back and I said, I absolutely have no idea what we did outside all day long, but we just, played all day long. And as adults, don't play, don't find that thing a play. And it's funny, cause I think about golf. Golf is a game, but there's not, it's a little bit serious. I mean, I don't see people on the golf course really joking around and you know, that. that doesn't happen. might be a joke, but we're not going to just act silly on the golf course because that's a serious game. The next L is live for legacy, right? So people think of, well, I don't have a legacy to leave. I don't have a million dollars to leave my grandkids. Well, most of us don't, but legacy is bigger than that. Legacy is how people are to remember you when you're gone. What do you want them to think about you? Who can you invest in? So we've had a legacy at work. We've left a legacy at work. there are some things that people think and legacy can be good and it also can be bad. People leave a bad legacy. But then you step out into this new era and it's like, what legacy am I going to leave? What do um I want people to think about me? um Dr. Maya Angelou, the poet, says your legacy is every life that you touch. And so you think about it that way in the second half, what lives are you going to touch to be part of your legacy? The second I is ignite your passion. And so this is where I think people can get really excited to figure out what they're passionate about. This is a space where I think high level executives can really latch onto this retirement by figuring out what they're passionate about and then how can they use that passion to fuel them, right? So whether it's, know, some people are great mentors. And so if you've been the CEO of let's say a tech company and you've retired, imagine if you created a social network where you could mentor younger startup. tech CEOs and give them some of your knowledge. That may be a passion for you, maybe not. And so whatever your passion is, for some people it's gardening. I hate dirt, so that wouldn't be mine. We all have a different passion. And then the end is nurture your network. And so I talked about the importance of social, having your social game up. But in this sense, nurture your network is you have people who are already in your network. Lots of them are probably from work, but those network, folks you networked at work aren't necessarily going to stay long-term connections. We think they are in our head, but time goes and disconnections happen. And so here at Nurture Your Network is we really have to think about who's in my network? Which ones am I going to nurture? Which ones maybe do I need to let to the side? What new people are going to be in my network? how am I going to... So it's about relationships. It's not about networking for a new job or whatever, you know, your network is at work. This is about networking for relationships. The final I is invest in others. So what are you gonna do to invest in others around you? I love when people invest in the children and their families, whether it's teach them how to create a family tree or telling them stories, teach them the history. Those things are valuable. That can also be valuable on the other side, listening to the elders of our family tell stories. And then the T is tell yourself you're killing it. So even when... Things don't feel well. I'm just not today is not a good day. You can still tell yourself you're killing it and you don't have to choose all eight. The reason I love the eight is because you may never kill it on all eight, but you can pick two and say, I'm going to decide what my legacy is and my passion is. And I'm going for those two. And so if you pick those two, you nailed them. You can, you can say to yourself, like, I, I know what my passion is. I'm killing this every day. I wake up and I get to do this. Right? And so that's where the formula helps people to decide how does this apply to me. That's very complete, Lisa. See, retirement, financial planning, it's something that's been there for years. And I think people these days might want to think, or my perception is that people spend a good number of years preparing before retirement financially. But how long before retirement should people start thinking about the non-financial? aspects of their next chapter as you defined it. Yeah, I it's a great question. I would say at least five years out, they should start thinking about the non-financial side because that can also impact the date that you want to retire, right? So you may have picked in your mind, I'm going to retire at 65. And so, but if you figure out that, wait, if I retire at 62, that means I could get, or I start my side business, whatever I want to do, and it starts to take off at 62. I probably retire a little bit earlier than 65 because this is what I'm going to do to get that going. And so when you know in advance what you're going to do for a lot of people, it's going to be some kind of, they're going to pick some kind of, you know, side job with it, create something, create a social club, whatever. It's going to take some planning and some ramping. Right. And so if you start five years out of saying, but when I retire, I want to jump into this. you'll know what you need to be doing in the meantime to ramp to that, whatever that age is for you. And so I like to tell people at least five years out, know, when you're planning financially, we tell people start as soon as possible. At any time that you can contribute anything to your retirement, you are moving in the right direction. And by 40, you need to be pretty serious about it if you want to, you're pretty serious about your retirement and your date by then, right? That gives you a solid 20 to 25 years to save. doesn't require you to you know take all of your disposable income and nub it in for people waiting waiting until they're 50 before they start thinking about it every dime that you have that's free it's got to start going into retirement because you're behind you're behind the eight ball by 50 unless you plan on working until you're 70 or 75 Listen, do you think that the hustling culture and productivity guild defined as, um I'm not doing a lot of things, so I'm not being productive of a value is uh making us made people incapable of enjoying leisure and rest? That is so true. We've become addicted to activity, right? We feel like activity equals productivity when in our hearts we know that's not true. Activity doesn't equal, we can be active and doing a lot of things and be doing absolutely nothing all at the same time. Sometimes we don't realize that the rest is actually what we need. I think about it in terms of... Going to the gym, right? You have to have rest days when you go to the gym if you're a person who goes to gym regularly because if you don't have rest days eventually, it's the body starts reversing what you're doing because it's so tired. It's the same when we're doing things. Sometimes we just do stuff, but we don't stop to think about what we're doing. Okay, is what I'm doing makes sense? Should this do I need to be doing this? Does it make sense or am I just doing things to keep busy? And I think that was one of the things I had to challenge myself with. when I first retired, I really had to start putting, I was really just doing things at one point. I was just doing lots of things. And I, you know, I have an executive coach who I still have, even though I'm not an executive anymore. And she said, what are you doing? And I'm like, I have no idea. And she said, you're just doing things. Stop and let's talk about what are the two or three things that you really want to do. And the rest of it just stopped doing things. And I did find... I do find that this hustle culture tells us keep doing things because activity is going to get you where you need to go. And the reality is that's not true. It's not activity that's going to get you where you need to go. It's focused activity that's going to get you where you need to go. Some people say that ah for some it's hard to retire because they don't want to be at home. Life has, their work has become their entire life and they perhaps hasn't nurtured a life at home that is um worth spending time in. Is this a fact? Does this happen? Yeah, it's not too dissimilar to the empty nest syndrome where parents have spent a lot of time raising their children. And so when the children leave the house, they've discovered that they haven't spent that much time with the spouse in the house. And so now they realize maybe we don't really know each other anymore. Retirement can be the same if they have a partner in the house and you've both been out working and now you're both home. It's the funny story of the woman who tells her husband she has to go back to work because he kind of driving her nuts. m But yes, there are times when we haven't created home to be the peaceful place that we'd like it to be, right? It's not our sanctuary. em But the answer to that isn't to keep working because by continuing to work, you're prohibiting, you're extending the same problem, which is not figuring out how to create that haven. But you can offset that by finding things to do and it doesn't have to be work, right? So if you like any sport, you can schedule tennis, know, the new pickleball craze, whatever it is, you can spend time outside of your house so that you're not home and actually you shouldn't be home all day every day. I always, you know, my, I rule for myself is I don't allow myself to stay in the house all day, more than one day unless I'm sick. So I have to get up and get out of the house every day to do something unless I'm sick, in which case I give myself permission to be in the house. But that keeps me from getting stuck in the house and getting into that rut. And so if there people who don't like being at home, and one of the things is for people who are single. If you're home, you're the only one there, that can be the trigger for loneliness, but that's where you have to nurture your social network, right? So how do you schedule these? How do you find the group of people who are having lunch once a week or breakfast once a week? So it's about finding the things that you love to do versus just working as an alternative to being home. There are other options other than not this. It's not either work or be at home. other options besides those to work or be at home. There's do other things that keep you out of the house and busy, but also, you know, allow you to be productive and happy. companies provide pension plans monetary dollar pension plans should companies start thinking about training their employees for retirement? I absolutely think so. I think it's a missing element. I think we help people figure out, ah make sure that they're, we give them all the resources, 401k advisors, to make sure that they're financially ready for retirement. We want them to be successful in retirement, but at the same time, we only have dressing one side of retirement. So, you know, one of the companies that I started talking to is a 401k advisor and I said, you're covering that side. They're actually the 401k advisors that helped me get to the place where I said I could retire. And I said, how are you addressing the other side? And he said, you know, we have one or two workshops for people, but we don't go very deep. just kind of say, you should think about this. So I think we have a good partnership. And so I'm talking with them about a partnership for their clients, being able to provide workshops that say, here are the elements that you need to be thinking about. And not necessarily, I'm going to go through this entire formula with you, but for some people it's just, depending on where they are, for executives, I would start with that identity piece. That is going to be huge in helping executives figure out what's next when I'm no longer the boss. Before, everybody came to me for everything. When you retire, the only person who's coming to you is whoever's in your house who wants you to do something. Whether it's take out the trash or whatever it is that person is gonna probably have asking you to do anything or asking you for your opinion or There's nobody for you to kind of order around this you know the emails you get are more like junk or somebody trying to sell you something or You're not getting any of those emails that need your high-level Important opinion anymore, and so I think this is something that's really that is missing from the retirement planning And I think companies really ought to be engaging to at least give their employees the option. I had the privilege of preparing for an organization. They have a lot of retirees because they do writing papers. They have fellows who are already kind of retired people who have come back to work to write political papers. And I had the privilege of just providing, helping them with a one-pager to help their people. They wanted to help their people think about. what am I going to do on retirement because he's a very intellectual people who've been writing and they're in their 70s and they kind of have mandatory retirement and they're like, well, what am I going to do now? Well, it was a great way to participate and help them with their employees to at least be able to present this one pager that says, are some of the things you should think about as you're retiring. And so I would 100 % agree that companies really ought to be, particularly companies who have a mandatory retirement age, which there are a lot of industries where there is a mandatory retirement age. I think they ought to be preparing them with more than just a pension. Lisa, let's do five rapid fire questions. Number one, what is the biggest retirement myth that needs to die right now? I think the biggest myth is that when you walk into retirement, you're going to be immediately happy. Number two best piece of advice for someone retiring in 2025 versus 25. 2005. The best advice for somebody retiring in 2025 is really make sure you have a plan. What are you going to do for somebody to retired in 2005? The question is, you living? I asked them a question. Are you living your best life? And if not, figure out why not. one thing retirees do that screams I have no plan Typically, retirees walk out of retirement uh with no plan and stay home. That is one of the things that they do is they stay home. They stay in the house and they can probably tell you everything that's happening on their favorite television shows. 4. Should people retire if they genuinely love their work? I think the answer is that's up to you. If you generally love your work, but you love your work and you are contributing, right? So my thing when I left was I want to retire while people are still going to miss me and not when they're asking, when am I going to retire? So the one caveat that I say is don't stay too long because while you may love what you do, make sure everybody around you loves what you do. And number five, what is the most underrated aspect of retirement planning? I think this is the most underrated aspect of retirement planning. Having a plan for what you're going to do with the next six Saturdays and one Sunday for the next 20 years is completely underrated, uh but it's valuable because it can be the difference between you living your best life or wishing you could go back to work. Lisa, let's wrap up this conversation for someone that is listening, who's terrified of retirement because they don't know what they're going to do without your job title. What is the first step? An actionable step they should take this week. Yes, absolutely. So the first step I would say to the person is to ask the why question. Why did I retire? That helps to frame it for you. Did you retire because you were forced to retire, meant to retirement, or did you retire because you decided to retire and what was that reason? So that's the first question they should ask themselves. And ask that they ask themselves that question, I would say move to the imagine stage, right? What is it that you've ask yourself what is it that you've always wanted to do and that's a hard question and you may need somebody to help you tease out but what have you always wanted to do because now you have all the time in the world to do it so what's the thing and that gets to both what's next and your passion right ask yourself what is it that you've always wanted to do it if money i always ask if money were no option what would you be doing and somebody may say travel around the world maybe you can't travel around the world because you don't have that but is there one place you can go that you can say that's the start. But I would say for people that creating some big picture, these are the things I've always wanted to do to help yourself get excited about your next steps. That's the first step. How can I get excited? And the way that you get excited is to find the things, ask yourself over and over what excites me, what things make me get up in the morning and figure out how to incorporate those more into your day. Lisa, for people or audience that are soon to retire, starting to think about retirement, just retired, retired a while ago but they are lost, how can they know more and get in touch with you? Yeah, so I'm pretty easy to find. Everything is similar and the same. I'm on Facebook at Retired and Killing It. My website is retiredandkillingit.com. I am on Instagram at Retired and Killing It. Soon to have a YouTube page for Retired and Killing It, working on that now. So any place that you type in Retired and Killing It, I hope to pop up. You can reach me at any of those areas and connect with me there. Thank you so much, Lisa. Thank you so much for this conversation. uh A few takeaways I'm taking from this conversation is number one, retirement can be scary, but it's a mentality, a mindset that we have created through the years that retirement sounds more and more like the halftime than the end of the game. Right. And the best time to start planning for retirement probably is today. Lisa, thank you so much. And thanks for your wisdom and for being with us today. Thank you, Santiago. was a great conversation. Thank you for having me on your show. had a wonderful time.