How To Fix Your Attention Span (Before It's Too Late)

In this conversation, Concetta Cucchiarelli discusses the complexities of focus and attention, challenging common misconceptions about deep focus and multitasking. She emphasizes the importance of understanding how our environment and relationships influence our ability to concentrate. Through her Sustainable Focus Framework, she provides insights into managing distractions and enhancing productivity. The discussion also touches on the impact of the attention economy on children and offers practical tips for protecting one's focus in a world filled with distractions.

Takeaways

• We are optimizing our focus by being alone, which may not be effective.
• Attention spans are not necessarily shorter; we are filtering information differently.
• Focus is a natural process that can be managed, not forced.
• Multitasking can be helpful in specific contexts, but is generally not recommended.
• The myth that we can extend focus indefinitely is misleading.
• Focus is crucial for building relationships and showing love.
• Distractions should be viewed as opportunities to enhance focus.
• The Sustainable Focus Framework includes preparation, focus, and logging off.
• Flow state is an ideal, but not the only way, to achieve focus.
• Protecting attention requires filtering information and reducing decision points.

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Misconception of Deep Focus
• 3:06 Attention Span: Are We Losing Focus or Filtering?
• 5:49 The Fascination with Sound and Attention
• 8:45 Focus as a Productivity Multiplier
• 11:53 The Multitasking Debate: Pros and Cons
• 15:10 The Myth of Endless Focus
• 18:00 Focus in Relationships: Connection and Attention
• 20:59 The Sustainable Focus Framework Explained
• 23:54 Flow State vs. Focus: Understanding the Difference
• 27:08 Managing Absorption in Focus
• 30:06 Attention Economy and Kids: A New Challenge
• 32:59 Protecting Your Attention in a Distracted World
• 36:00 Rapid Fire Focus Tips
• 38:56 Final Thoughts on Focus and Attention

Transcript

0:30

Meet Conchetta Cuciarelli, a pioneering focused strategist and researcher at the intersection of sound, cognition, and human behavior. With master's degrees in political science and sonic studies, plus a patented interactive sound interface called Terzifone, she uncovers how acoustic ease, specific soundscapes enhances attention without isolation or burnout. Frustrated by traditional productivity hacks that ignore our biology, Conchetta created the sustainable focus framework and focus gym teaching connected focus, deep concentration while staying attuned to your body, environment and relationships. Through workshops, keynotes and her workbook, she empowers teams and individuals to build personalized lasting strategies for thriving and meet distractions. Join us to learn how to reclaim your attention and elevate your thinking. Concheta, welcome to Productivity. Thank you, Santiago. It's a pleasure to be here. You argue that the way we pursue deep focus, it's actually making things worse. What do you mean by that? So one uh of the biggest uh discovery, let's say, that I did during this 15 years of research is that we are optimizing our focus by being alone. So trying to cut off all the distractions like using headphones, like noise canceling headphones. But what I discovered is basically that we need to have information from the environment first of all because we need in order to be focused we need to be safe we need to perceive ourselves safe and we perceive safe when we are grounded in the environment and especially when we can predict what can happen And we cannot predict anything actually if we don't have any information from the environment. So this is what I call the horror movie effect. So basically when they want to generate tension, when they want to generate fear, for example, they start removing all the information. Like they really narrow down the frame and they remove the music, they remove the sounds and you're like... Okay, now something is about to happen and the brain is so, so quick to jump to that conclusion because the fact that we don't have information is not natural. Actually, we want to have information so that we can predict what we have to do. So like thinking about focus on something that happens in a vacuum without distractions, without information. What happened, what generated this kind of idea is that we are trying to figure out what can happen. So one part of our brain is devoted, dedicated to figure out what can happen. And in this way we are actually removing resources from the full focus. So basically there is one part of us that is trying to figure out something. And you know, it's not a really big uh stress response, but it's a low stress response, but it's continuous. So it means also that not only we have reduced ability to focus, but we also have a stress response that is always there and can increase actually our level of stress. Very interesting. Let's try to go back to this because I'm absolutely in love with my noise-cancelling headphones, and now I have doubts about them. But listen, um a lot of people think that they have shorter attention spans. There are studies about this. Some are more professional, some are more, you know, um less professional, so to speak. Are we actually losing focus or are we focusing differently. I think it's the second one. what they, the idea that we have that our attention span is now eight seconds is, it's related to like a measurement. But what I realized is that these eight seconds are not related to our focus, but they are more related to our activity to filter out. and to search and figure out does this work is this worth my attention so what i think is that yes we are working on eight seconds but during those eight seconds we are not focusing we are just figuring out if focus is something that we want to give so that's why i don't think we are really getting worse we are more and more filtering out because we have way more information. How did you become fascinated and interested in the field of attention and focus? Is there a moment where you said, this deserves 15 years of my time? Yes, actually I've been always fascinated by sound since when I was a child, like how sound works and the effect that has sound on us, because it's really, really like magic, magical, magical. And so I started studying actually sound and the way it propagates and everything. But I immediately moved to the way we perceive sound because of course, it all depends on how we perceive sound. And I started seeing this relationship with our like very lower level of perception, the relationship with our em autonomous system. And I started seeing, okay, what we know about attention is just a subset of the whole system of attention, because mainly what we know about attention is we realize a lot of what we know about attention through like in the field of vision. So and studying sound, I realized that this is just one part of our attention works. And then, yes, I was also studying as a composer. And what one day I was in a concert. looking at the people, like there were a lot of maestros there like listening and I was looking at them and they were just so disconnected and disengaged by everything and they were so engaged on their own piece, on their own music, trying to okay figure out if it works, if it's okay and they were totally totally disconnected and I say why I'm trying to produce music if there is this possibility that people don't even listen anymore. So I went back to how we listen and how we perceive and that's the way we pay attention eventually. You call focus a productivity multiplier. How does exactly better attention and focus compound results for individuals and teams? Yeah, focus I think is the bottleneck of everything. I mean, you can have whatever uh productivity system, it can be perfect, but then if it doesn't enter your awareness in uh your sphere, then it's something that is not anymore related to you. So if you learn to manage focus, and I say manage because we know how to focus, If you think about it, when you just overthink, you are over focusing on something because you are really, really fixated on that. So it's something that is really natural for us. What is not natural is the way it like the control of focus. like master focus and decide where we want to stay and where we where we don't want to stay. So if you manage, if you. learn to manage focus, then you will see like an increase of productivity that is incredible. And the main point is that focusing, uh unlike what we tend to think, is not just the active process of focusing, but it's also the rest that you give your brain that is part of the activity. It's like working out. and then don't stretch or don't rest. It's very, very important. So I think that in order to increase productivity, first of all, want to define what is productivity for us and then learn how to focus and learn the whole process of focus. Then productivity, comes kind of naturally. Multitasking. It used to be the golden skill. Then the pendulum swung to the other side and no you shouldn't multitask because tower kill your productivity. Where do you stand in the debate? So I tend not to pick always like only one side. And of course, it's also a matter of like, what is more fashion sometimes. But of course, we know that we cannot multitask in a technical way. So every time we multitask, we are just switching back and forth on two different tasks. And that's one thing. Usually what I think is that it really depends because sometimes you have to do uh a task that is very boring and sometimes like in that case multitasking helps you. Otherwise it's very very difficult to go through that task. The fact is that we don't have to like the the problem is that when multitasking becomes an habit. And you are not able anymore to say, does this serve me or I just need to do more than one thing because I cannot do anything else. And because, for example, I cannot just work on one task without feeling, having that feeling that I'm losing the time that I could save by doing more than one thing in one time. So it really depends on what you want to do, which task are you doing? And also considering that there are some limitations like cognitive limitation. usually if you are, example, and everything goes back to what I said at the very beginning, if you want to walk, for example, like while walking, you want to learn something, you want to listen to something that is demanding, then you are not really optimizing your time, you're just kind of wasting your time because you're not fully on the walking so you're not relaxing and at the same time you are learning but something for the very short term. It's not something that you learn and then you can recall which is basically what a big part of learning and retrieve. So this is very important. And also there is this kind of myth of listening to podcasts to learn while doing something else, which is something a bit difficult because when we uh listen, we don't have the support of paper, of like the words on paper. So what we have to do is try to figure out the content. but also figure out how the content is developed. So we don't have pages. We don't have like spatial places. So everything is up to our imagination. And this is a huge effort. I mean, it's nothing that you can do if you want to do it effectively. I highly suggest not to do it, for example, when you walk or while you're driving. So yes, there are some examples where multitasking it's fine, but in the majority of the cases, it's really not recommended. Juan Concheta, are killing most of my habits today in this interview. But I do agree with you. It's very hard to listen to podcasts or to audiobooks and do absolutely anything else. I feel I need to sit down and listen and to pay attention to that thing if I want to get it. It is difficult because when we listen to something, we are used to have a visual support. If you remove the visual support, it's way more difficult for our brain. So we have to do something in the meantime because we are missing a piece. And we have the illusion that, for example, doing something while listening can fill the gap. of missing the support of the visual part. What do you think is a big myth people believe today about training your focus or becoming very focused? Where does people get it wrong? Yeah, the idea, like the most important for me is that you can, let's say, uh make longer and longer the time you can focus. uh Because there is actually a limit that is related to not really just on the cognitive side, because of course there are some limits from a cognitive perspective. uh Gloria Mark, for example, says that there are some kind of cycles that are almost 19 minutes and over that you lose your focus and you have to rebuild it again. So there is this kind of uh cycles. But also when you try to focus, actually are like you are uh spending a lot of energy. not only to stay on the task but also to control yourself like self-control meaning also stay sit and not walk somewhere else and control everything the whole system to stay on the task and that kind of effort is really expensive for us so when we try to the mind is not a muscle that you can stay there and stay focused forever ah So I think one of the most important, the biggest myth about focus is this one that you can just make longer and longer session of focus. I want to take a look at focus from a relational dimension and ethical. um Sometimes attention is not just about efficiency and getting something done, but also connecting with other people, focusing on what you are saying, listening. How does focus affect how we interact with others and the quality of our relationships. Focus, I think it's, I always think that focus and attention is the biggest tool we have to show people we love. And also the biggest tool we have to show people we don't love. Because actually, when we pay attention to someone, they feel hurt and they kind of feel connected. But when, for example, someone comes to you and say, look at this, this is beautiful. I just discovered this. And you don't pay attention to them. It's really like a huge letdown. So I think that attention and focus are the biggest thing that we have to show connection and show love and interest. And that's why, for example, I always talk about don't let's uh not optimize ourselves to find focus in solitude in like disconnection from the environment because then when we get used to that then it's difficult to go back to relationships and and it's difficult to go back to a kind of focus that requires relationships so it's it's really really important to train focus that is that is helpful for productivity, but also for connections. You have created a framework, the Sustainable Focus Framework. What is it and how is it different from other productivity systems? Yes, well of course the first element is that based on my research and all these things that we are discussing of course that are not really mentioned elsewhere and uh what is the framework basically is something that helps you to understand. First of all there is it's based on three elements that are for me the basic of focus and whatever focus you want to consider. The one that is more related to productivity and the one that is related more to relationship. So you have three phases of focus. There is the preparation. There is the focus part and then there is the log off. Because I think that it's difficult, almost impossible, to get focused on something if you just jump into something because you don't even know what is it and you really want to get ready and get ready has different steps that helps you to build so much clarity, so much relationship with what you are about to do and also about the result that Focus is almost inevitable. mean, it's nothing that you have to push because when you get ready with uh so much accuracy, then it's normal to be focused. It's the next logical step. And then you have the focus uh moment, is it has like the framework has a distraction management system. It means that we don't want to think about distractions as something that disrupts focus, but something that can be leveraged. So we want to understand what is happening in our mind. It's not like when you're doing, uh for example, mindfulness or meditation, where we try to, let's say, let the thoughts pass and don't pay too much attention just like clouds let's uh move away. In this case we want to note our distractions because what happens in our brain while we are we are busy on a task it's precious work because actually the brain in the background is doing stuff and those stuff usually and there all the most beautiful things happen and we don't want to let go. We want to take it, take them and say, okay, this is taken care of and it's here and I want to take it because otherwise it's like work that you are wasting. And if you start seeing distractions in this way, you are also less frustrated by the fact that you get distracted. And you are less focused because you start or ruminate, start ruminating on your frustrations and start saying, no, no, it shouldn't be like this. It shouldn't be like this. So you waste good work. You move your energy to something that is not helping your focus. And that's just lost. So there is this way to capture distractions and then the log off, which is like a way to close the focus session because every time we focus on something we activate a process and if we don't close the process then we always have ideas that are keep going but I could have I could have done that I could have changed that and you really want to give closure so that you know what you have to do you know what you have done you also fix, let's say anchor also the state of focus of the just finished session and you can move forward so that you don't have like things when you are in a meeting and you're start thinking about you're still thinking about something else or something that it has to come. So the framework train you to think in terms of a process that you want to start. you want to stay without uh running away from distraction and close so that everything has its own space and that's also related to what you were mentioning about productivity because for example a lot of times people talk about time boxing and time boxing is really really useful but the point is that if in that time box you don't go through the process, then you risk to jump into the other time box with all the load of the previous one. And also you want to plan your rest because otherwise I always do this this example or analogy is like you go for grocery and you keep bringing food to your place and you put everything on your table and you put food on your table without like putting in the fridge and sort everything out. Then you just waste a lot of food. You don't prepare anything and you have your table always full that you cannot even have your lunch or your dinner. So it's really, really important. Yes, to time box, but also organize that time so that you can maximize your energy and your space for. interesting. um It's focusing... Have you heard expressions? Flow, being in a flow state, being on the flow. What's the other one? um Being... um What's the other one? Flowing, yeah. Is this the same as being focused? So the flow state is something beautiful and I cannot tell the name of the psychologist coming up with it because the last name is super, super difficult. But he discovered this moment, I mean, he managed to describe this moment that every one of us has experienced, which is that moment in which you are so focused on something that you are kind of absorbed. and you don't need to actually push or like with willpower to stay on the task. And it's that moment where everything seems to be perfect and aligned so that you can just stay there effortlessly, which is, which is like, well, a lot of people, especially working with uh focus, they tend to consider the flow state as the ideal. uh the ideal goal what we want to do is create that kind of focus which is of course is beautiful and it's something that you can also with my framework for example you can kind of it is actually the way you generate the the flow state but it's like it's not uh happening naturally So like it's also actually the reason why I created the framework so that you can get there easier. Sometimes I missed meetings, Concheta, I must admit it. I get into doing something, I get so......absorbed by it, that I completely lose track of time. Is there something as too much focus? Is there a way to control that? It is, but yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be so worried about it because of course we have a lot of things to do during our day. So for me, it's very normal to use alarms. That's best thing to do. And of course, we... A lot of people said, yeah, I cannot remember things. I forget meetings. And I always say we are dealing with so much information, so much things happening around us that we really want to leverage at least alarms and notes because we really need to leverage also tools that are not in our mind so that we can rely on it and stay focused. But actually that what you mentioned is also part of like one of the reasons why in my framework there is a logging off. So you want to set a time and you want to also set the logging off so that you will be just on time for the next thing. And usually when we forget this is because we get absorbed. And luckily, it's something that we are interested in. maybe, but of course we want to also stay kind of aware of what we have to do and also other stuff that don't come easily. So an alarm, the alarm will be perfect, not an alarm but not an alarm that is part of the notification that you get from the laptop because that will be lost, like literally an alarm, like I have this one, it's huge. Let's talk a little bit about the attention economy and kids. There are many parents, and I'm one of them, that think that short form content, it's breaking their kids' brain. That kids cannot concentrate anymore because they are literally raised with these five second, 10 second clips, 15 second clips. What do you think about it? Should we train our kids differently? So what I think is like, as I always say, focus is a complex system. So it's not just one element. If you look at your kids, like playing, for example, with a PlayStation or something like this, like Xbox, but also with like random stuff, they can spend two, two hours, three hours like totally absorbed by some bricks or some things. don't think they, mean, there are a lot of elements that usually we don't consider because when we think about focus we think just from a cognitive perspective. But actually there are also, there is also, for example, one huge element is that they, and it's also related to attention economy, is that they don't have anymore something that is scarce. They have everything available. So when you, for example, when I was a child, like cartoons were in TV just at five, four o'clock in the afternoon. And if you missed that, you were like that was missed for the whole day. When you have everything available automatically. you remove the value and also the urgency and also the value that you give to that. So sometimes they are not uh they are not paying attention not because they cannot with their brain but because they don't perceive it valuable they don't perceive it as something that is so precious that deserve their their focus. So this is something very important. And another thing, for example, just to mention another one, is that, especially when it comes to homeworks, for example, they have mixed feelings about school. So school was something like was an authority, something that was very valuable up until some years ago. But then we start seeing people becoming rich overnight. like by dropping school like and all this kind of message messages are mixed signals in our like in children mind but also in parents so sometimes also from the parents uh side it's better to go with like a unique narrative just to give just to not to give mixed signal to the children. Otherwise they go, uh, school is very bad. It's, it's useless. It's and then you say, but you have to go and you have to make sure. And then you're like, why was it? is happening here? So there are a lot of elements related to, I don't think they are getting less focused is that they are. kind of like overwhelmed by opportunities and they don't even know how to choose. Yeah. So by now I think we have established that attention is scarce. How can people protect their attention in a world that is bombarding them with, hey, pay attention to me, look at this notification, read this message, hey, here's an email, here's an offer. How can you protect your focus? Yeah, so the how you protect your focus is not isolating yourself, I guess, I think, but more about uh filter the information that you are exposed to. And we have way to do this, of course. But like what I think is very important is to like reduce the decision points. The more you go in a place, the more you find yourself like, oh, what I was doing. ah Then you start re-deciding and you are exposed to again, all the decision, all the information. So I think that one very useful thing is like select your source of information, for example, so that every day you can just go for them and If you want to go deeper because you have time, you want to expand. But ideally, you want to go with the idea that less is more. So make more decisions of reducing what you are exposed to. Also, like the thing that you are doing, the book that you are reading, the projects that you have open. And I think that that's more about like accepting that. I mean, you can do just a few things at the time and that will be the best you can do. Concheta, let's do a few rapid fire questions. Five questions answered in 30 seconds or less. Coffee, music or silence? What improves focus the most on average? Music, off your silence. I will go for music. The right one, because we tend to sing. We cannot sing. We cannot not sing to what we have around. So if you find a good music that is a good pace and not with your headphones, through a loudspeaker, that's perfect. Tell us one focus advice that you will erase from Instagram and LinkedIn if you could. remove distractions. You want to have instead an environment that is predictable. So something that you are used to that you don't have to always react or be alert. What is your personal attention creep tonight? Something that trips you, makes you trip all the time. When I don't know what I'm doing, when I'm not sure about what I'm doing, everything that happens is a huge distraction and my focus is gone. So the only thing that I can do is being super, super clear about what I'm doing. One word that describes what real focus feels like to you. love yes when you when you perceive that feeling of love there is focus there is attention there is dedication so yes nice. Last one, one micro habit that listeners can start today and that will immediately make their next work session more focused. Get ready. Figure out what is coming, what is starting, what you're going to do, what you're going to jump into. You don't want to jump into things. You just want to visualize it and say, I get to do this thing. And you get ready. Like getting ready is the most important part. Let us give one last piece of advice to the audience, Concheta. For someone that is listening and who feels constantly distracted and cannot get focused, or is even ashamed of not having discipline, enough disciplines to, you know, get 20 minutes focused on to something, where could they start? What are the first small steps for them to start? changing their attitude or their habits towards focusing. The first thing I think is related to the perception we have of good focus. We have an ideal that a person that is focused, that is able to focus, sit down, doesn't have distraction, keep going for two hours, three hours. But I always get this piece of uh this suggestion to people. Every time you say, I cannot do this, this is very difficult for me, my brain doesn't do this. go to someone else and ask, can you do this? And like you'll discover with a lot of like a surprise that no one can do it actually. So there is this idea of focus that is not really real. So when you break this idea that you should be something, then... a lot of frustration really doesn't come out. sure that the audience will have many, many, many more questions that we didn't cover in this conversation. How can get people in touch with you? How can they work with you to regain or develop focus habits? Yes, so of course they can connect on LinkedIn or there is my website that is www.focusgym.co and there they can find everything. So I created the workbook so if they want to work alone and they want to find their own golden strategy for focus they can use the workbook that is this one and it's called my focus gym uh workbook and of course they can work with me and they will find of course like how to on the website and I also give some uh group um like bootcamp that I give during the year so the next time the next one will start mid-January and um that is called always focus gym or I work also with team in incorporate or in startups, example, because I really believe that focus, especially in AI era, age, ah it's the bottleneck of everything. Very good. Concheta, thank you very much for this very insightful conversation. I'm taking a couple of things away. The first one is that focus is a sneaky thing. It's not always easy to get. And the second one is that if you want to get into the zone in flow, There is ways to get into this by preparing to get focused. And that's better than waiting that, you know, it will come to you like for a magic event, you will get focused. Thank you so much. And um we hope you enjoyed the conversation. very, very much. Yes. Thank you very much for having me Santiago.